[22:40:33] [connected at Thu Sep 13 22:40:33 2018]
[22:40:44] [I have joined #xf-bod]
[22:41:04] <danvet> bryce, is the amd invoice still pending?
[22:44:09] <danvet> mupuf, bryce keithp Riastradh anholt hwentlan bod mtg in 15'
[22:46:41] * anholt here
[22:48:25] <mupuf> yop!
[22:50:37] <keithp> yup
[22:57:18] <mdnavare> Hi everyone, Manasi here!
[23:00:23] <danvet> hi all!
[23:00:39] <danvet> tlwoerner, in case you're also hanging out here today?
[23:00:45] * hwentlan here
[23:01:11] <danvet> Agenda: xdc sponsored event, sponsors, gsoc, evoc, fd.o, server incident, fd.o servers
[23:01:15] <danvet> anything to add?
[23:01:35] <danvet> I've thrown out a few things in the hopes of finally catching up with our backlog
[23:01:58] <mupuf> looks good!
[23:02:05] <danvet> agenda += xdc coc
[23:02:08] <danvet> almost forgot that one
[23:02:39] <robclark> o/
[23:02:47] <danvet> robclark, hi
[23:03:22] <danvet> first one, igalia has finalized the program, but they want to sponsor a second social event on Wed (besides the welcoming thing on Tue)
[23:03:57] <danvet> formally needs our approval
[23:04:21] <danvet> https://www.x.org/wiki/Events/SponsorshipLevels/ <- we discussed this a while ago and added rules
[23:04:50] <danvet> imo all fine
[23:05:43] <mupuf> i don't see any problem with having a second social event
[23:05:48] <hwentlan> no objection here.
[23:05:52] <robclark> nor I
[23:05:54] <anholt> yeah, sounds fine
[23:06:04] <bryce> hi all
[23:06:11] <danvet> they also organized some tour thing on top, but after asking some question looked all good
[23:06:12] <danvet> bryce, hi
[23:06:20] <danvet> so all good
[23:06:31] <danvet> next up, sponsors
[23:06:36] <danvet> bryce, want to do a quick update?
[23:07:10] <bryce> sure
[23:07:53] <bryce> sponsor payments from all sponsors but one have been confirmed received by SPI
[23:08:16] <bryce> the one missing (AMD) is in process, I need to check current status on it
[23:08:53] <bryce> I've been posting status details into the Sponsor section in archives.git, and will continue updating there as I have time
[23:09:07] <danvet> spi's financial data now easier to get hold off?
[23:09:10] <bryce> iirc we're bringing in about $35k
[23:09:14] <danvet> I've seen quite some activity fly by
[23:09:21] <danvet> yeah
[23:09:30] <danvet> ARM is probably too late :-/
[23:09:38] <danvet> could perhaps ask liviu again ...
[23:10:05] <bryce> they're being way more responsive, yes, but the actual fix they promised hasn't been implemented yet afaik
[23:10:35] <bryce> also been keeping track on sponsorees, we've had a few cancellations for various reasons
[23:10:45] <danvet> yeah I've seen one
[23:10:57] <danvet> I also had to chase silly visa requirements for a gsoc
[23:11:05] <bryce> I'd need to re-add, but I seem to recall last time I added it up was looking like $5k or so total expenses to estimate
[23:11:14] <danvet> type a travel grant and get it scanned because phone cam ain't good enough :-/
[23:11:24] <danvet> yeah sounds about right
[23:11:59] <danvet> and I think we're around expecting ~10k for xdc expensives (lunch, breaks, iirc some AV stuff still)
[23:12:15] <bryce> I think that's about it. Lots of idiosyncracies but nothing particularly interesting or worrisome. Just need to grind through the details
[23:12:34] <danvet> bryce, thanks a lot for the updating and chasing spi around :-)
[23:12:52] <danvet> next up I think xdc coc
[23:13:20] <danvet> keithp and me spent a bunch of time thinking about that, and talking with lca organizers for expertise and others
[23:13:24] <bryce> yeah post XDC I expect is going to be a bit involved to help folks with reimbursement troubles
[23:14:38] <danvet> yeah ...
[23:14:43] <danvet> sry, got distracted for a bit
[23:14:59] <danvet> so we've collected a bunch of recommendations on implementation details
[23:15:19] <danvet> one of them is to have some people dedicated, who aren't overloaded with being organizers
[23:15:29] <danvet> keithp&me would volunteer
[23:15:59] <danvet> we figured we'll start a chat with igalia about some of those details, and add another wiki page (linked from https://www.x.org/wiki/XorgFoundation/Policies/Harassment/)
[23:16:16] <danvet> all sounds good?
[23:16:44] <mdnavare> I could help out too, let me know
[23:17:06] <danvet> the coc team for xdc?
[23:17:20] <mupuf> mdnavare: would be great to have you there :)
[23:17:40] <danvet> yeah, definitely
[23:17:50] <mdnavare> danvet: mupuf: Would love to!
[23:17:51] <robclark> oh, this is for just xdc?
[23:17:53] <danvet> mdnavare, if you want, I can pull you into the thread and all that
[23:18:05] <danvet> robclark, yeah, we spent some thinking time about details
[23:18:19] <danvet> since always being lucky eventually stops working, so better be prepared
[23:18:30] <mdnavare> danvet: Sure
[23:18:36] <danvet> and at a conference you can't first spend a week figuring out the details
[23:18:39] <robclark> ahh, yeah, makes sense
[23:19:15] <danvet> I'll also send out the notes we have already to board@
[23:19:21] <keithp> we chatted with some of the LCA org team who had good suggestions
[23:19:39] <danvet> it's based on more resources from our original + lca org team suggestion and what they suggested as more resources
[23:19:47] <danvet> still a bit WIP, but at least some notes
[23:21:20] <mdnavare> danvet: So then the work involved is to consolidate the information and add a separate page for coc?
[23:21:51] <danvet> mdnavare, we kinda have done that already, mostly
[23:22:00] <danvet> it would be for volunteering at XDC itself too
[23:22:15] <danvet> or did you mean something else?
[23:23:13] <mdnavare> danvet: Yes count me in
[23:23:21] <danvet> awesome
[23:24:29] <danvet> ok, I think we can figure out details later on ...
[23:24:38] <danvet> mupuf, gsoc?
[23:24:50] <mupuf> what do you want me to tell about it? It is over
[23:25:03] <danvet> how would I know, I'm a stateless secretary :-)
[23:25:08] <mupuf> ha ha :D
[23:25:18] <mupuf> well, both students passed
[23:25:22] * danvet checks old minutes for less embarassing notes
[23:25:24] <mupuf> so all good \o/
[23:25:25] <danvet> cool
[23:25:30] <danvet> robclark, tlwoerner evoc?
[23:25:34] <mupuf> we had few but productive students
[23:25:54] <danvet> reminds me, I need to update the numbers for my report ...
[23:26:11] <robclark> sorry, don't really have an update
[23:26:19] <robclark> been short on time for past few weeks..
[23:26:22] <danvet> mupuf, ah right, last meeting we didn't get around to gsoc
[23:26:38] <mdnavare> danvet: Do we talk about outreachy at all at XDC?
[23:27:31] <danvet> mdnavare, we've had 2 outreachy interns this year in drm, but that's under linux foundation sponsoring
[23:27:35] <danvet> not sponsored by xdc
[23:27:56] <danvet> I should probably bring it up in my report
[23:28:02] <danvet> at least on the kernel side seems to work
[23:28:41] <mdnavare> ok gotcha
[23:28:41] <danvet> robclark, ok .. and tlwoerner seems absent
[23:28:53] <danvet> but yeah, money we have
[23:29:11] <danvet> it's more an issue of someone needs to organize a good tutorial for applicants and a pile of mentors
[23:29:35] <danvet> hwentlan, fd.o-the-merger topic?
[23:30:19] <hwentlan> i sent out an updated patch based on your comments
[23:30:34] <danvet> keithp, with both of your hats on, seen the update?
[23:31:25] <danvet> I guess ideally we'd have a draft ready for members@ by xdc, for the fd.o discussion?
[23:31:38] <hwentlan> i like the current direction of thought much better and think this is something workable
[23:31:46] <hwentlan> but would like hear some more opinions on that
[23:33:12] <hwentlan> and agreed with danvet. it'd be good to have a draft of the bylaws ready for xdc
[23:33:25] <danvet> hwentlan, maybe also poke daniels on irc
[23:33:32] <keithp> danvet: yes, I read through hwentlan's changes; they looked great
[23:33:34] <danvet> though he's kinda snowed under too
[23:33:40] <hwentlan> will do
[23:33:48] <keithp> didn't feel like I had anything to add to your comments though
[23:33:55] <keithp> /aol, I guess?
[23:33:57] <danvet> one thing we could/should discuss is how much we open up membership to fd.o hosted projects
[23:34:11] <danvet> I like the middle ground and wording from hwentlan
[23:34:27] <danvet> keithp, yeah, I think that's useful too
[23:34:49] <danvet> or maybe when hwentlan has polished once more, for the bit of wording clarity I requested on the latest draft
[23:34:56] <keithp> I'd like to keep our current x.org membership rules; projects which are just using fd.o hosting don't seem like they "should" be involved in x.org politics?
[23:35:19] <danvet> yeah I don't want x.org to drown in non-gfx people either
[23:35:25] <danvet> but I think some representation would be good
[23:35:32] <keithp> in reality, anything which isn't aligned with x.org should probably find other hosting, but sometimes that's just not an option
[23:35:42] <danvet> atm it's "maintain or otherwise represent"
[23:35:46] <keithp> hrm. not in reality, 'ideally'
[23:35:55] <danvet> so leadership, but not everyone else
[23:36:24] <danvet> also, that's at full discretion of the board (secretary gets to approve each request)
[23:36:43] <hwentlan> although this does include projects which have little to do with x.org, like libreoffice
[23:36:50] <danvet> but I'd also be ok with fd.o projects not being eligible for x.org membership
[23:37:20] <danvet> yeah but if we get a handful of maintainers of unrelated projects that happen to host on fd.o, imo that's ok
[23:37:50] <danvet> I'd expect that most wont care enough anyway to apply
[23:37:56] <danvet> so more a nice gesture
[23:38:42] <danvet> might be best if we get some thoughts on this on board@?
[23:39:43] <hwentlan> i agree it'd be a nice gesture but i'm still wondering whether this could have long-term implications to our organization
[23:39:59] * robclark apologizes for being behind on reading patch/discussion on board@
[23:40:06] <hwentlan> will poke the thread on board@ again in a couple days
[23:40:18] <danvet> we could also bring this up as a question at xdc
[23:40:25] <bryce> what's the effect of including them? does it give them voting rights?
[23:40:27] <danvet> get a feel for where wider consensus is
[23:40:49] <danvet> bryce, yeah, that'd be the point, gives them a bit of stake
[23:41:14] <robclark> btw, how many big/active projects fall into this category, which actively use fd.o as something more than mirror for github/etc?
[23:41:28] <danvet> I think from a coc enforcement point that's good, accountability to the community and all that
[23:41:39] <robclark> (we probably do want to involve them somehow in the discussion)
[23:41:43] <danvet> I think it's just a few small ones
[23:42:06] <danvet> well atm they don't have any vote at fd.o :-)
[23:42:29] <danvet> and we just need to get x.org members to agree with 2/3rd of all members (not votes) with whatever we sign off
[23:43:17] <danvet> it could happen that with gitlab fd.o hosting becomes a lot more popular again
[23:43:44] <danvet> ok we have two more things, let's move on
[23:43:58] <danvet> personally I'm ok either way, best to if we hear some takes on board@
[23:44:12] <danvet> anholt, mupuf members.x.org update?
[23:44:28] <mupuf> well, I can't say much more than I am working on a replacement
[23:44:29] <anholt> I punted when I heard mupuf had made good progress
[23:44:49] <danvet> well I guess we'd still need to clean out the old db?
[23:44:57] <mupuf> yes
[23:45:03] <danvet> or is the migration story that we just get everyone to re-apply next elections?
[23:45:05] <anholt> mupuf: will your port use the same db?
[23:45:11] <mupuf> no
[23:45:41] <danvet> just simplified schema to have less confidential stuff on records
[23:45:42] <danvet> ?
[23:45:48] * mupuf is using modern tools that take care of everything for me, and importing could be done using a script, but what would it bring?
[23:46:37] <mupuf> danvet: so far, in the profile, I only have a first/last name, emails (or identity from gitlab, github, google, +40 other ways), employer and public statement
[23:46:41] <danvet> as long as we have some idea how to migrate without taking 500+ rows with it, I'm all happy :-)
[23:46:58] <danvet> mupuf, we need emails for the members@ list
[23:47:06] <danvet> that one's driven by the same php afaik
[23:47:10] <mupuf> yes, they are here ;)
[23:47:17] <mupuf> and I asked daniels how to handle that
[23:47:22] <danvet> awesome
[23:47:34] <mupuf> and I will make a rest interface that exports the list of emails that he can import
[23:47:56] <danvet> but only for localhost?
[23:47:57] <mupuf> or a script to run locally. Whatever is more convenient for daniels
[23:48:00] <danvet> I presume
[23:48:01] <mupuf> danvet: of course :D
[23:48:08] <danvet> REST sounds risky, even if limited
[23:48:24] <mupuf> yeah, local script is less risky
[23:48:31] <mupuf> I will go with that then
[23:48:40] <mupuf> it is really gonna be 5 lines long
[23:49:00] <danvet> if we just have a script that dumps the db (which is protected already I hope), less risk
[23:49:10] <danvet> mupuf, ok sounds all good, thanks for doing this
[23:49:26] <danvet> anholt, fd.o server proposal?
[23:49:26] <mupuf> the db is going to be sql lite, but we can change it to mysql, or postgre or whatever
[23:49:29] <mupuf> but I do not see the point
[23:49:45] <danvet> sqlite is already overkill I think :-)
[23:49:47] <anholt> did my mail for that go through today?
[23:50:12] <mupuf> in any case, I will have soon a document describing the workflow I am proposing, with screenshots, so as people can review
[23:50:19] <mupuf> and I would like to have the website done by XDC
[23:50:34] <mupuf> I am handling the memberships now (almost done), then will come the votes and I will be done
[23:51:24] <mupuf> the votes will be the most contentious one, but I hope you'll like the idea ;) It really would take the pain away of doing anything
[23:51:56] <danvet> anholt, yup
[23:52:05] <danvet> but ime no one reads stuff before the mtg, so short summary
[23:52:34] <anholt> short summary: mesa would like to start doing CI on checkin (including user repos), but right now fd.o only has a single not-so-great ivb runner and mesa would totally swamp it.
[23:53:01] <anholt> I've been trying to get eben at rpi to sponsor a nice runner, but that's kind of bogged down in trying to get an in-kind donation from his favorite vendor
[23:53:32] <anholt> it would be about $8k/year for enough VM to get automated testing of Mesa, presumably this VM capacity would also apply to xserver and other xorg stuff that sets up gitlab CI.
[23:54:15] <danvet> imo makes sense, assuming we'll merge anyway
[23:54:17] <anholt> the proposal would be for the board to start paying around that much for GCE (or other provider chosen by daniels) capacity for gitlab CI by fd.o projects.
[23:54:36] <danvet> and as a stop-gap until we've found a bunch more sponsors
[23:54:41] <mupuf> I guess we should all contact our managers and ask for money to sponsor the machines
[23:55:00] <danvet> I think selling a big link on gitlab.fd.o for "hosting sponsored by" should be able to gather a pile of money
[23:55:12] <danvet> mupuf, the issue is, this needs work
[23:55:19] <danvet> well, time
[23:55:23] <anholt> danvet: that might be confusing, given that gitlab.fd.o is hosting sponsored by gitlab already
[23:55:33] <anholt> this is just for the CI runner
[23:55:39] <danvet> anholt, I thought that's going to run out eventually?
[23:55:52] <anholt> oh, really? I didn't know that
[23:55:54] <danvet> and the gitlab one might have been too cheap :-)
[23:56:48] <anholt> while I do like the idea of asking for some more money for CI (I have), my understanding is that we're quite cashflow positive right now thanks to danvet, so I'd like to see our projects getting tested without blocking on that.
[23:56:49] <danvet> anyway, I'm not worried in finding good sponsors and extracting money, so afaict it's all about stop-gap financing
[23:57:00] <danvet> yup, exactly
[23:57:18] <mupuf> agreed
[23:57:20] <danvet> and I kinda want to look into hiking our xdc price tag too a bit, I think we've been too cheap :-)
[23:57:34] <danvet> so long term I'm totally not worried with burning down 10k/year
[23:57:40] <danvet> bryce, your thoughts?
[23:58:06] <hwentlan> i like driving CI and think it's a good idea to fund it
[23:59:47] <danvet> I'd like to not call a vote without the treasurer weighting in, it's still a good junk of money
[00:00:49] * anholt going to need to leave very soon
[00:00:59] <danvet> yeah, church bell rang, time's up
[00:01:09] <danvet> I'll ask bryce to weigh in on board@
[00:01:11] <anholt> sounds good
[00:01:32] <mupuf> danvet: I hope your local church does not ring bells at this time!
[00:01:32] <danvet> anholt, should we try to vote on board@ since generally seems to be positively received?
[00:01:38] <danvet> mupuf, ofc it does
[00:01:47] <mupuf> ewww
[00:01:52] <danvet> wouldn't be a real church otherwise
[00:02:12] <danvet> anholt, or ok next board mtg?
[00:02:22] <mupuf> in france, they stop after 9 or 10. In Finland.... no bells :D
[00:02:45] <robclark> mesa CI seems like the sort of thing that we should ask around and try to get a few sponsors for (distros and hw vendors, etc).. maybe we can get a few chunks of 3-5k to cover it for name appearing on CI results page or something??
[00:02:47] <anholt> danvet: yeah, let's try to follow up on email
[00:02:54] <hwentlan> bells only sunday morning here. sometimes i miss the bells from germany, though
[00:03:25] <danvet> anholt, ok, though board@ votes tend to drag out forever ime
[00:03:35] <danvet> thx everyone for hanging out, time for ^Z here now
[00:03:52] [disconnected at Fri Sep 14 00:03:52 2018]