[21:59:07] [connected at Thu Mar 15 21:59:07 2018]
[21:59:18] [I have joined #xf-bod]
[21:59:27] <tlwoerner> xorg@fdo
[22:00:00] <keithp> right, US DST means a new localtime here
[22:00:26] <bryce> aha https://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel/2018-March/056316.html
[22:01:00] <danvet> Agenda: gsoc, treasurer's report, election, sponsoring, xdc cfp deadline
[22:01:09] <danvet> anything to add while I collect myself and get organized?
[22:01:19] <danvet> sponsoring = sponsoring policies
[22:04:28] <danvet> hm we're only 4 people by now
[22:04:35] <danvet> egbert, mupuf, Riastradh around?
[22:06:54] <tlwoerner> robclark said he'd be late, but isn't here now
[22:07:54] <egbert> hi!
[22:08:01] <danvet> hi egbert
[22:08:07] <egbert> hi danvet!
[22:08:14] <danvet> I guess that gives us at least neough folks to go through a few updates
[22:08:36] <danvet> treasurer report, bryce want to do a quick summary?
[22:08:44] <bryce> sure
[22:09:59] <bryce> I've been updating our Ledger will transactions I know about - danvet's list of sponsors, the xdc travel expenses, dissolution expenses.
[22:11:01] <bryce> SPI replied to my last ping, that they'll need another month to get any detailed transaction data.
[22:11:46] <bryce> I am a bit torn between getting this finished and off my plate, vs. waiting and getting more accurate data.
[22:12:12] <danvet> it's a bit annoying
[22:12:14] <bryce> robclark had suggested doing best estimates for now, and following up later with final numbers
[22:12:15] <robclark> hi
[22:12:25] <danvet> and I guess we don't have much indication that it'll get better next years ...
[22:12:52] <bryce> so I'm currently following that suggestion. I'm working on getting the ledger data formatted, and will send the report in hopefully later today
[22:13:04] <danvet> sounds reasonable
[22:13:16] <bryce> had hoped to get it posted before the meeting, but got distracted by other matters
[22:13:44] <agd5f> sounds good
[22:13:54] <bryce> danvet, yeah if there is another bylaw revisit some day, might want to reajust dates on the reporting requirements
[22:14:11] <danvet> bryce, yeah
[22:14:22] <danvet> otoh I kinda don't like if we change random stuff
[22:14:31] <danvet> we hopefully have a bylaw vote for the fd.o merger next year
[22:14:42] <robclark> yeah, that might be on the docket next year I guess (and fd.o)
[22:14:48] <danvet> but stuffing in a totally unrelated process change feels wrong
[22:14:51] <bryce> $1782.61 Accrued:AccountsPayable:Xorg
[22:14:51] <bryce> $-65155.23 Assets:Xorg:SPI Savings
[22:14:51] <bryce> $-1788.61 Expenses:Xorg
[22:14:51] <bryce> $-6.00 Banking Fees
[22:14:51] <bryce> $-113.75 Corporate
[22:14:52] <bryce> $-1668.86 Events
[22:14:53] <bryce> $65161.23 Income
[22:14:55] <bryce> $1359.75 SPI:Donations
[22:14:57] <bryce> $63801.48 Xorg
[22:14:59] <bryce> $806.00 Donations
[22:15:01] <bryce> $26600.95 Sponsorship:Events
[22:15:05] <bryce> $36394.53 Transfers
[22:15:07] <bryce> --------------------
[22:15:09] <bryce> 0
[22:15:10] <danvet> in swiss voting that's called "unity of subject of vote" that must be upheld ...
[22:15:28] <danvet> robclark, I guess we could do 2 bylaw votes
[22:15:37] <bryce> (you'll want to flip signs around on the numbers; ledger does it this way for ${reasons})
[22:15:37] <robclark> right, it would be two separate items
[22:16:10] <danvet> bryce, looks like normal double booking
[22:16:17] <bryce> danvet, yep
[22:16:31] <danvet> well I'm never sure whether expenses or income is negative, but one of them is
[22:16:43] <robclark> I think we could continue to keep our own books, which would give us a lower bound on $BALANCE, ie. might not reflect some donations that came it, but shouldn't be over optimistic since we should know all our expendatures
[22:17:09] <bryce> anyway, I'll get a draft report out to the list either today or tomorrow at the latest. I'll push the ledger data to git too.
[22:17:21] <robclark> so that would give us *some* figure to put in an initial report, until we can get data from SPI
[22:17:25] <danvet> we had 36k in the old account?
[22:17:40] * danvet totally didn't know it was still that much :-)
[22:18:15] <bryce> danvet, yeah
[22:18:48] <danvet> the 26k, is that mostly the xdc18 stuff?
[22:19:13] <danvet> I guess I should create a gpg key for real for next xdc ...
[22:19:30] <bryce> yep, the xdc18 sponsorships.. also the sponsorship donations are entirely unverified. I didn't put in Igalia's since we don't yet know what the remainder of their amount will be, so potentially $5000. I put in a placeholder for them though.
[22:20:05] <danvet> sounds all good
[22:20:31] <bryce> we do get receipts for the ClickAndPledge donations, so I've included those too. But there's other donations that come in to SPI that I do not get any notification of, and won't know anything about until SPI gives their report
[22:20:53] <danvet> ok
[22:20:58] <bryce> also, there will be some banking expenses for donations, wire transfer fees for sponsored donations, etc. which will bring the total down some.
[22:21:05] <danvet> either way we're still practically swimming in money
[22:21:14] <bryce> so +/0 10% either way I guess
[22:21:23] <bryce> er +/-10%
[22:22:05] <agd5f> not bad
[22:22:12] <bryce> danvet, yes plenty of money. Need to figure out ways to spend it. ;-)
[22:22:37] <danvet> I'll leave that to others :-)
[22:22:53] <danvet> anything else on accounting and financials?
[22:23:04] <bryce> nope, eot.
[22:23:10] <danvet> thx
[22:23:16] <danvet> robclark, elections?
[22:23:34] <robclark> sure.. sent out "here are the candidates" email earlier today..
[22:23:39] <robclark> 6 candidates, 4 seats
[22:23:39] <danvet> yay!
[22:23:58] <robclark> elections start next thurs.. so I guess I need to figure out how to setup the voting system
[22:24:14] <robclark> (on top of that I'll be at linaro in HK next week)
[22:24:35] <robclark> anyways, I think that is where we stand
[22:24:36] <danvet> I can help if needed
[22:24:51] <danvet> I dug around in the php code at least to figure out how to add more admins :-)
[22:24:52] <robclark> ok, that would be useful.. since my flight is sat
[22:25:01] <danvet> sat?
[22:25:09] <robclark> long flight to HK
[22:25:20] <danvet> oh this w/e?
[22:25:22] <robclark> yeah
[22:25:42] <robclark> I should be online off/on but in completely wrong timezone
[22:25:49] <danvet> well, early morning now
[22:26:01] <danvet> hk is actually better than portland
[22:26:08] <danvet> for me
[22:26:27] <robclark> hmm, true I suppose.. it's a bit tz shift for me ;-)
[22:26:42] <danvet> robclark, can you give it a shot and send me a mail or ping on irc if you're stuck?
[22:26:59] <robclark> anyways, I guess setting up election system is matter of setting up some tables in db.. I'll poke around and see what I can figure out
[22:27:13] <robclark> but I'll ping you if I need some help
[22:27:27] <danvet> robclark, you should be ballot admin already
[22:27:32] <agd5f> there's a GUI of sorts to set up a new election
[22:27:40] <danvet> it looks like ballot is just a bunch of clicking
[22:27:43] <agd5f> it's not too bad once you figure it out
[22:27:49] <danvet> and a button to tally it up
[22:27:49] <robclark> oh, ok.. tbh I haven't looked at it at all.. so maybe not so bad
[22:28:12] <danvet> I mean if you're too busy in hk I can try it out to and wreak it :-)
[22:28:29] <danvet> there's looooots of "new ballot" and "test ballots" already
[22:28:54] <robclark> I *should* have some time Sun after I land.. depending on whether I'm too jetlag'd to think straight..
[22:29:07] <danvet> I guess we should have a plan at least
[22:30:10] <robclark> if it is just clicking, and doesn't involve figuring out mysql, then I might be able to do it tomorrow..
[22:30:21] <robclark> but I can keep you posted by IRC
[22:31:08] <danvet> I think no sql
[22:31:22] <danvet> we might not have a button to go live and prepare it upfront
[22:31:26] <danvet> but we'll figure that out
[22:31:35] <robclark> yeah, that was my other question..
[22:31:44] <robclark> but I guess I should just have a look and see
[22:32:59] <robclark> fwiw, I haven't setup an irc bouncer for OFTC, so if you need to ping me next week, freenode might be better
[22:33:41] <agd5f> yeah, I think I was able to set it up beforehand
[22:34:48] <danvet> sry I'm distracted and slow
[22:35:03] <danvet> robclark, yeah freenode is where I usually ping you anyway
[22:35:24] <danvet> so next item is sponsoring policy changes
[22:35:46] <danvet> bryce, did you redo your patch for the general policy and I missed it?
[22:35:59] * danvet not sure where we are with that
[22:36:11] <bryce> danvet, no, I didn't get back to it yet. distracted by other stuff, sorry
[22:36:19] <danvet> ok, np
[22:36:30] <danvet> I'll note it for next time around, that good for you?
[22:36:57] <bryce> yes, although I won't be at the next meeting. Going to be in Boston for a hackfest.
[22:36:57] <danvet> I think we had general agreement on what we want to do in the last discussion, just need to respin it a bit
[22:37:01] <danvet> ah ok
[22:37:06] <danvet> I'll just keep it rolling
[22:37:16] <bryce> once the treasurer report is done, I'll try and focus on getting that nailed down
[22:38:00] <danvet> sounds good
[22:38:01] <bryce> yeah I felt I had a good handle on what should change, but honestly I've mostly forgotten. I think I made some notes somewhere though.
[22:38:27] <danvet> other one is the event sponsoring policy clarification for the organizer discount
[22:38:42] <danvet> I did send out a diff a few weeks back, but then went on vacations and didn't follow up
[22:38:59] <danvet> "Clarification for the event sponsoring policy"
[22:39:29] <danvet> http://paste.debian.net/1015000/
[22:39:34] <danvet> no comments on it yet
[22:39:41] <danvet> should we discuss it here?
[22:40:11] * robclark looks
[22:40:15] <danvet> I'd like to get this done and come back to igalia with it and get this sorted and of my list
[22:40:46] <robclark> danvet, I guess you mean just the last hunk.. looks reasonable to me
[22:40:55] <danvet> yup
[22:41:04] <danvet> the other stuff is my scripting doing the minutes :-)
[22:41:13] <robclark> heheh, ok
[22:41:52] <danvet> agd5f, bryce keithp egbert ^^
[22:41:53] <bryce> it still seems a bit vague to me, but you're the one dealing with the sponsors so maybe it doesn't matter if it's vague to me :-)
[22:42:27] <danvet> bryce, what should I clarify?
[22:43:51] <agd5f> what is the last sentence trying to convey?
[22:44:16] <agd5f> is there a need to call out local sponsors specifically?
[22:44:53] <danvet> igalia said they want to/will look for local sponsors
[22:45:17] <danvet> and at least in one of the drafts it looked like they will pile them all under the platinum heading, above all the gold sponsors
[22:45:24] <danvet> I figure that's a bit much
[22:45:53] <agd5f> oh, yeah, I see. yeah, not sure how best to handle them. E.g., local bakery provides muffins
[22:46:04] <danvet> there's already at least 1 gold sponsor who's pissed about the "free" 5k discount
[22:46:28] <danvet> if the oragnizers want to somehow copy them for each of the sub-organizers I think a lot more gold sponsors will be pissed
[22:46:40] <danvet> and I'd agree
[22:46:54] <danvet> agd5f, for material stuff, convert to money, look up
[22:47:21] <danvet> I mean if they want to put a sign next to the muffins that it's sponsored or something I think that's all fine
[22:47:24] <robclark> the intent of that clause is to recognize "in-kind" donations (providing food/labor/services)..
[22:47:35] <danvet> but 500$ of muffins and then get the top line spot, nope
[22:47:39] <bryce> danvet, the discount thing seems to be a source of contention. I understand its intent and purpose but it seems a bit of a can of worms.
[22:47:39] <danvet> yeah
[22:47:40] <agd5f> yeah, I just meant that it's probably too small for any of the categories
[22:48:21] <danvet> bryce, we're in this awkward in-between right now with xdc where it's no longer 100% cheap volunteer everything, but also not fully professionally oragnized
[22:48:28] <agd5f> I dunno, maybe not
[22:48:42] <danvet> agd5f, it is to small for any of the categories
[22:48:48] <danvet> hence sign next to muffins and that's it
[22:48:55] <robclark> yeah
[22:48:58] <agd5f> yeah
[22:49:10] <danvet> bryce, previous xdcs where essentially "you organize everything, for free, we can maybe pay breakfast"
[22:49:25] <robclark> (possibly an announcement at the beginning of the day that "XYZ is the muffin sponsor"..)
[22:49:55] <danvet> and personally I don't want to go and convert all the free work into money equivalent and check all the book-keeping for leaflets and whatever
[22:50:12] <danvet> but yeah it's probably not the best solution for this problem
[22:50:44] <bryce> danvet, what seems vague I guess to me at least is it's unclear where the line is between a labor/service/expense that we would consider part of the discount and what is on the 'additional expense subject to board approval' side. The way its stated seems to leave a lot of room for arguing whichever way. I don't have any suggestions for clarifying that, it is obviously a hard thing to set a clear rule on.
[22:51:18] <danvet> bryce, I think we'll have to keep clarifying this one, yes
[22:51:40] <robclark> maybe limit the power-up to whoever is organizing (since presumably that are spending time on that over the course of the year), and other small local sponsors we just put their name next to the muffins/coffee/etc
[22:51:45] <danvet> and the "board needs to approve" is the escape hatch for all the special cases that we failed to consider yet
[22:51:59] <danvet> robclark, that's the idea at least
[22:52:13] <danvet> there's only 1 power up, not one for each local organizer
[22:52:19] <robclark> ok
[22:52:46] <danvet> I mean feature all the other oragnizers too, but imo don't put them all above gold (like igalia first did)
[22:53:28] <danvet> but yeah it all gets a bit complicated, and ofc the first xdc with sponsoring has multiple organizers :-/
[22:54:00] <robclark> yeah, the multiple organizers is a bit weird
[22:54:19] <bryce> almost seems like it might be easier handling recognition for event financial sponsors separately from event organizers. *shrug*
[22:54:41] <danvet> bryce, but how do you order them
[22:54:51] <bryce> danvet, all I can say is I'm glad you're coordinating these things and not me :-D
[22:54:55] <danvet> what do you do if we have a financial sponsor who's also organizing?
[22:55:10] <danvet> well sometimes I'm having regrets too :-)
[22:55:28] <danvet> so should we vote on this or do folks want to think about this some more?
[22:55:40] <bryce> yeah, guess it'd make some things easier but an equivalent number of things harder.
[22:55:41] <danvet> I don't expect it'll be the last change this year ...
[22:57:17] <danvet> I'll jot that down as "inconclusive discussion" because we have one more topic
[22:57:22] <danvet> XDC18 CFP deadline
[22:57:23] <bryce> given we're short staffed, maybe another meeting's worth of discussion would help?
[22:57:43] <danvet> I'd propose XDC - 2 months so that we have enough time to go through it and adjust travel grants perhaps
[22:57:49] <keithp> yeah, that's what I was thinking
[22:58:02] <keithp> what countries would need visas to get to spain?
[22:58:12] <danvet> ofc we'll take late submissions if there's slots still free, but XDC - 2 months would be deadline for real consideration
[22:58:16] <keithp> and how long would it take to acquire visas?
[22:58:20] <danvet> india
[22:58:32] <danvet> we have an outreachy from india whom I invited already
[22:58:40] <danvet> not sure she'll be able to show up
[22:58:49] <danvet> no idea tbh
[22:59:00] <danvet> I think 2 months should be enough
[22:59:10] <danvet> I need a Russian visa for summer vacations this years
[22:59:28] <danvet> and you can't even start it earlier than 3 months before
[22:59:41] <danvet> and Russia is pretty bad with visas
[22:59:47] <danvet> I think 2 months should be just about enough
[23:00:05] <danvet> while still being a big change compared to what the old timers are used to
[23:00:12] <danvet> that's why I wouldn't go with more
[23:00:37] <robclark> (we probably need to hype up the cfp deadline a bit better too)
[23:01:02] <danvet> yup
[23:01:11] <danvet> so aye/nay?
[23:01:30] <danvet> on XDC-2 months + late submissions if free slots + lots of nagging/reminders
[23:01:38] <robclark> yeah, +1 for that
[23:01:46] <mupuf> oh no! Sorry guys!
[23:02:13] <agd5f> +1
[23:02:26] <danvet> mupuf, almost missed it too :-)
[23:02:32] <mupuf> darn it!
[23:02:41] <egbert> +1
[23:02:51] <danvet> mupuf, vote on setting the XDC CFP deadline to 2 months before?
[23:02:55] <keithp> +1
[23:03:07] <mupuf> 2 seems to short of a notice still
[23:03:10] <mupuf> but it is an improvement
[23:03:14] <danvet> +1 from me too
[23:03:26] <tlwoerner> will the cfp deadline be advertised on lwn?
[23:03:27] <danvet> mupuf, will probably have a few people missing it still
[23:03:38] <mupuf> +1 for me
[23:03:41] <danvet> tlwoerner, I think usually they do that if we send out a real cfp
[23:03:43] <danvet> I'll remind igalia
[23:03:54] <danvet> ok, I think that carries, I'll send out mails
[23:04:09] <danvet> sorry for going over time 3', and thanks everyone for participating
[23:04:55] <mupuf> sorry guys for being late
[23:05:06] <mupuf> I guess next week europe will be in sync with the US again
[23:05:26] <tlwoerner> danvet: as opposed to a "backing-store" cfp? ;-)
[23:06:04] <bryce> +1 on DXC-2
[23:06:50] <bryce> er, XDC-2 cfp
[23:10:07] [disconnected at Thu Mar 15 23:10:07 2018]