[22:47:32] [connected at Thu May 11 22:47:32 2017]
[22:47:42] [I have joined #xf-bod]
[22:55:49] <tlwoerner> casual lurker reporting in :-)
[22:57:44] <mupuf> hehe
[23:00:38] <mupuf> hi everyone
[23:00:51] <danvet> hi all
[23:01:06] <mupuf> egbert, keithp, agd5f, robclark, bryce_, robclark: ping
[23:01:12] <robclark> o/
[23:01:16] <egbert> hi guys!
[23:01:17] <bryce_> hi
[23:02:17] <Riastradh> Hi! Will be here after all, but a couple minutes late.
[23:02:20] <danvet> oh upfront apologies for not yet having done the survey for maybe moving the meeting ...
[23:02:27] <danvet> Riastradh, we haven't yet started really
[23:02:43] <danvet> Agenda: dissolution paperwork, gsoc, evoc, khronos, coc, xdc18
[23:02:55] <danvet> something to add here^^?
[23:03:11] <robclark> lgtm
[23:03:27] <mupuf> same here
[23:05:13] <keithp> hey, he's bod time.
[23:05:13] <danvet> agd5f, keithp around?
[23:05:29] <agd5f> hey
[23:06:21] <danvet> cool, let's get started
[23:06:26] <danvet> bryce_, paperworks fun update?
[23:06:57] <bryce_> one day I will be skillful at dissolution paperwork
[23:07:01] <bryce_> but that day is not today
[23:07:25] <bryce_> lots of phone calls, refiling of paperwork, general frustration, etc.
[23:07:49] <bryce_> sadly nothing meaningful to report, still about where we were two weeks ago
[23:08:53] <danvet> :(
[23:08:58] <danvet> oh well
[23:09:18] <danvet> so I guess none of the expense paid yet either?
[23:09:21] Riastradh is now known as Guest179
[23:09:21] Riastrad1 is now known as Riastradh
[23:10:03] <bryce_> I've paid all the expenses for Delaware out of pocket, but haven't requested reimbursement
[23:10:33] <egbert> bryce_: at one point - after this is all done - you should write your memoirs as a 'org dissolver' to let the world know ;)
[23:11:03] <egbert> bryce_: please at least request reimbursement
[23:11:06] <danvet> bryce_, you'll ask for reimbursement later on?
[23:11:12] <bryce_> I haven't paid NRAI yet (the $189), but when I spoke to them they said they'd help with wrapping things up after dissolution is complete
[23:11:15] <Riastradh> Acme Org Dissolver^TM, just sprinkle it on!
[23:11:50] <bryce_> I keep figuring I'm Nearly Done, and will just deal with getting reimbursement next
[23:12:42] <bryce_> ironically didn't this all get started because they threatened to dissolve Xorg Foundation for not doing some paperwork?
[23:13:05] <danvet> that was the IRS I thought ...
[23:13:14] <egbert> yes.
[23:13:24] * bryce_ handwaves gobernmunt
[23:13:32] <danvet> :-)
[23:14:03] <danvet> mupuf, I guess we can move to gsoc?
[23:14:17] <bryce_> danvet, thanks, nothing else from me except snarky jokes :-/
[23:14:39] <mupuf> danvet: sure!
[23:14:54] <mupuf> So, not much to say about it! We got 5 slots from google
[23:15:05] <danvet> bryce_, thx for handling all the pain for us!
[23:15:19] <danvet> mupuf, work didn't yet kick off?
[23:15:21] <mupuf> the bounding period is ongoing. I need to send an email and verify that the student actually are working
[23:15:28] <mupuf> no, it will on the 30th of May
[23:15:33] <danvet> ok, nice
[23:15:57] <mupuf> I got admin rights on the fd.o planet too, so I can add the blogs
[23:16:14] <danvet> \o/
[23:16:42] <mupuf> that's it for me!
[23:16:44] <danvet> thx
[23:16:48] <danvet> robclark, evoc?
[23:17:03] <danvet> do we have some proposals to consider already?
[23:17:13] <robclark> so we have our first evoc proposal.. it was sent to board list
[23:17:28] <robclark> hopefully someone else besides me read it too?
[23:17:48] <robclark> it was for the driconf replacement project
[23:18:07] <danvet> do we have a mentor, and the mentor thinks it's a good project?
[23:18:09] <robclark> proposal looked reasonable.. nha agrees to mentor the student..
[23:18:13] <robclark> yeah
[23:18:42] <danvet> so stuart brough up the gsoc stipends by area topic
[23:18:50] <robclark> would be nice if some others double checked the proposal, but looks reasonable to me..
[23:18:52] <robclark> yeah
[23:19:03] <danvet> do we want to change that already for this time around?
[23:19:21] <robclark> we possible should do that for EVoC.. although doing it this time around might be a bit late notice..
[23:19:23] <danvet> tbh I have no idea how good a project it is
[23:20:09] <tlwoerner> what's the "stipends by area topic"?
[23:20:12] <bryce_> yeah, agreed
[23:20:16] <danvet> I can cargo-cult python at best
[23:20:37] <tlwoerner> pay based on difficulty level?
[23:20:56] <robclark> no.. pay based on "Purchasing Power Policy"
[23:20:58] <danvet> pay based on buying power equivalent
[23:21:02] <danvet> ah right, that's the term
[23:21:04] <robclark> see https://developers.google.com/open-source/gsoc/help/student-stipends#total_stipend_amount
[23:21:06] <danvet> gsoc switched to that
[23:21:12] <bryce_> not by "area topic" but by "physical location"
[23:21:26] <robclark> basically it is adjusted for cost of living in different areas
[23:21:35] <tlwoerner> thx
[23:21:38] <bryce_> i.e. flat fees ignore that cost of living varies worldwide
[23:21:43] <robclark> right
[23:21:43] <Riastradh> GSoC is experimenting with switching to it this year. It's been a controversial source of discussions for many years, and I expect it will be the subject of many discussions at the mentor summit in the fall.
[23:21:48] <agd5f> does the student have any patches commit or any experience with mesa?
[23:21:59] <danvet> google's list is reasonable, Switzerland wins :-)
[23:22:17] <bryce_> yeah I'd looked at google's list myself a while back, and agree it looks reasonable
[23:22:19] <robclark> agd5f, not yet, but it is on the schedule the student proposed.. so we can't green-light it *yet*
[23:22:28] <robclark> also need to confirm enrollment, etc
[23:22:53] <tlwoerner> danvet: Switzerland same as Canada, Sweden, Denmark...
[23:23:05] <danvet> so maybe we should wait until gsoc passed and hear what the results are?
[23:23:30] <robclark> I would propose that if we switch to a PPP type scheme, we should have it take effect for 2018.. possibly waiting to see how it works for GSoC wouldn't be a horrible idea
[23:23:34] <egbert> Germany and the US are the same ;p
[23:23:54] <Riastradh> robclark: Watching experience of GSoC sounds like a good idea to me.
[23:23:57] <egbert> robclark: yes, this sounds reasonable.
[23:24:02] <agd5f> agreed
[23:24:09] <robclark> danvet, maybe we put it on the schedule for board mtg after summer, see how it went for GSoC, and then vote on whether we do the same for 2018
[23:24:23] <danvet> robclark, ok, I'll try not to forget this ...
[23:24:24] <bryce_> that'd also give ample time for updating the EVoC policy docs and stuff.
[23:24:28] <Riastradh> Consider putting it on the agenda right after the GSoC mentor summit?
[23:24:45] <robclark> Riastradh, that works for me (although offhand I don't know when that is)
[23:24:55] <Riastradh> Some time in October, I expect.
[23:25:16] <Riastradh> All Google says is `late October': https://developers.google.com/open-source/gsoc/timeline
[23:25:26] <robclark> ok.. I think that gives more than 2mo until jan 1st..
[23:25:37] <robclark> so I think that is a reasonable amount of lead time
[23:25:45] <danvet> yeah, might even be enough for us :-)
[23:25:54] <danvet> anyone objecting to postponing this until Oct?
[23:26:23] <robclark> mostly I'd hopefully like to make the switch, if we do, at a point in time when we don't have any EVoC proposals or projects in flight
[23:26:40] <bryce_> robclark, that seems logical, yes
[23:26:45] <robclark> (and for it not to be a last-minute switch for students)
[23:26:56] <robclark> Oct seems reasonable in that regard
[23:27:13] <Riastradh> Apropos of GSoC and EVoC, has anyone looked into Outreachy?
[23:27:36] <robclark> we have in the past..
[23:28:12] <bryce_> do they provide funding?
[23:28:19] <danvet> Riastradh, tldr: we don't know how to effectively ramp up real newbies, which is what outreachy aims at
[23:28:22] <Riastradh> bryce_: They provide funding past the first student.
[23:28:25] <tlwoerner> robclark: oh... the 3rd "P" seems to be Parity, not Policy
[23:28:31] <robclark> in the past the main issue is we didn't have mentor bandwidth to take on complete newbie (hence the have to submit a patch, etc, requirement for EVoC/GSoC)
[23:28:35] <danvet> we also didn't manage to get critical mass (more than 1 student), so they were a bit lost
[23:28:40] <robclark> tlwoerner, ahh, ok
[23:28:46] <Riastradh> bryce_: Mentoring org pays for one student; SFC fundraises for more students.
[23:28:58] <danvet> but yeah if someone figures out how to do that better, would be great
[23:29:14] <Riastradh> OK.
[23:29:17] <danvet> Riastradh, searching old board mails for outreachy should give you all the stuff we've discussed
[23:29:22] <Riastradh> danvet: Thanks!
[23:29:38] <danvet> sarah sharp pinged us iirc 1 year ago, and whot wrote a long reply with it all
[23:30:01] <agd5f> IIRC, our biggest issue with outreachy was lack of people to help get students up to speed with the project
[23:30:17] <danvet> robclark, so on the evoc proposals themselves, any ready for consideration?
[23:31:14] <robclark> well, only the one so far, but there has been a bit of other tire kicking.. Quentin's proposal (IMHO) looked good but he hasn't done the initial-patch step yet..
[23:31:37] <robclark> so basically "tentative consideration" is on the table
[23:32:10] <danvet> robclark, table for next mtg so we can make a definitive consideration?
[23:32:27] <danvet> need schedule fixed, scope fixed, mentor fully on board and all that I guess?
[23:32:48] <robclark> basically we have those parts..
[23:33:17] <robclark> I was hoping someone else would have also looked at the proposal, otherwise I could have given my feedback on it without waiting for the board mtg ;-)
[23:33:36] <danvet> it didn't look quite that clear to me for the driconf project with Rahul Jain ...
[23:33:52] <danvet> seemed to still be fairly unclear and just ideas on the list
[23:34:02] <robclark> umm, that is someone else
[23:34:08] <danvet> oh
[23:34:11] <danvet> which one is it then?
[23:34:30] <robclark> look for email from Quentin Lui
[23:34:36] <robclark> Liu even
[23:34:40] <agd5f> proposal seems decent, I'm just not sure it's enough for a full summer long project
[23:34:50] <Riastradh> Qingbo `Quentin' Liu? message-id <720f4470-4597-428c-997a-c06227a962e9@Spark>
[23:34:57] <danvet> ah yeah
[23:35:04] <danvet> I didn't get that this was also about driconf
[23:35:32] <danvet> agd5f, I'd take me longer to cargo-cult some python, but I don't do python :-)
[23:35:47] <danvet> well, except the horror show for kernel-doc that others had to clean up afterwards ...
[23:36:00] * robclark didn't notice that driconf came up in Rahul's thread..
[23:36:25] <robclark> but Quentin's proposal was C++/qt
[23:36:30] <bryce_> I'm decent with python but am not knowledgeable about dri
[23:36:50] <agd5f> danvet, yeah, it's probably ok if the student is using it to learn a toolkit.
[23:37:08] <danvet> ah, didn't realize this was c++ either
[23:37:13] <Riastradh> I'm competent at Python and C++ but I don't even know what driconf is.
[23:37:34] <robclark> https://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/DriConf/
[23:37:54] <robclark> basically a way that you can configure quirks/etc for specific games
[23:38:14] <danvet> in case of doubt I'm deferring to the mentor and robclark
[23:38:15] <Riastradh> I see. Is it still relevant today?
[23:38:19] <danvet> the pdf looks pretty :-)
[23:38:28] <tlwoerner> the screenshot could use updating :-)
[23:38:34] <danvet> Riastradh, games suck, only get tested on nvidia and never updated
[23:38:49] <robclark> yeah, basically..
[23:38:53] <Riastradh> Heh, OK.
[23:39:06] <robclark> see /etc/drirc
[23:39:19] <danvet> every few releases a new kind of hack gets added iirc
[23:39:41] <tlwoerner> the first task should be to get it off sourceforge and out of subversion?
[23:39:43] <danvet> with per-app defaults
[23:39:52] <robclark> yeah, or when new game comes out
[23:40:15] <robclark> heh, well new thing, probably github for now and eventually push to git.fd.o
[23:40:34] <robclark> but github doesn't require student to get an fd.o account
[23:40:38] <tlwoerner> hello, the early 2000's called, they want their subversion and sourceforge back
[23:40:46] <robclark> :-P
[23:41:34] <danvet> ok, so should we vote?
[23:42:09] <Riastradh> Has anyone contacted the mentor to confirm?
[23:42:14] <robclark> I have
[23:42:46] <danvet> and it's all good?
[23:42:58] <robclark> nha is on board.. like I mentioned earlier, student still needs to upstream a patch before we can green-light..
[23:43:11] <robclark> at this point it is mostly about feedback whether the proposal looks good, I guess
[23:43:28] <robclark> (and I need to verify enrollment, etc)
[23:43:31] <Riastradh> Does the mentor have a system for tracking project progress, e.g. an appropriate agreed-upon issue tracker?
[23:43:58] <agd5f> not sure how much sense a patch makes since his project is not really part of mesa per se. I mean, I think we need some sort of way to verify his ability, but
[23:43:58] <bryce_> Riastradh, good questions
[23:44:00] <robclark> we haven't really used anything like that before.. mostly we just want student/mentor to stay in contact on IRC, etc..
[23:44:54] <robclark> agd5f, good point, but I suppose patch to the mesa side of driconf or something?
[23:45:00] <bryce_> process doc is at https://www.x.org/wiki/XorgEVoC/; there's a list of requirements and an interview checklist
[23:45:08] <tlwoerner> will the evoc student(s) be on the planet blog too?
[23:45:27] <agd5f> yeah, probably. maybe something to do with per GPU settings
[23:45:28] <robclark> agd5f, I'll ping nha tomorrow and see what his thoughts about first-patch..
[23:46:07] <agd5f> sounds good
[23:46:26] <robclark> we probably should put something on the XorgEVoC wiki page about maintaining a blog..
[23:46:39] <agd5f> beyond that, the proposal looks good to me
[23:46:51] <bryce_> robclark, I can add that if you'd like
[23:46:59] <robclark> bryce_, cool, thx..
[23:47:11] <Riastradh> Personal experience with GSoC: a public blog may be a barrier, but keeping track of issues and project milestones is important and helpful to avoid getting derailed.
[23:48:01] <robclark> I think we ask for a blog for GSoC but I assumed that was a goog requirement and not our own?? I could be wrong tho
[23:48:11] <tlwoerner> (3 more topics, 12 minutes?)
[23:48:13] <Riastradh> Google does not require it, I think.
[23:48:23] <robclark> oh, ok
[23:49:15] <bryce_> we could require it, but consider exceptions on case-by-case basis. Better to be upfront with the requirement, and handle issues before things get too far along
[23:50:05] <robclark> yeah, that sounds reasonable.. if not blog then status reports to list, perhaps
[23:50:28] <danvet> robclark, volunteered you in the minutes
[23:50:40] <danvet> ok, since time is kinda low, I guess we'll table the vote for next time around?
[23:51:07] <robclark> sounds fine..
[23:51:30] <robclark> Quentin isn't really far enough along w/ the requirements to vote anyways
[23:51:38] <danvet> before khronos and coc ... I think it's time to start asking for xdc18 hosting proposals
[23:51:43] <danvet> or at least people interested
[23:51:58] <mupuf> yeah, xdc18 could be good
[23:52:12] <mupuf> I already got proposals, but nothing official
[23:52:31] <danvet> bunch of ideas from people in France, and they just elected their president, so we can consider them :-)
[23:52:40] <robclark> heheh
[23:52:41] <danvet> yeah there's 2-3 iirc already interested
[23:52:50] <danvet> anyway, sounds like I'll get to type the RFP mail
[23:53:06] <danvet> https://www.x.org/wiki/Events/RFP/ <- our notes from last time around, fyi
[23:53:37] <robclark> +1 for danvet typing :-)
[23:53:46] * danvet always typing in mtgs
[23:54:01] <danvet> coc discussion, I think it died out on the m-l
[23:54:17] <danvet> and I didn't sense much enthusiasm for the board to get involved ...
[23:54:33] <danvet> should we table that topic, or is someone volunteering as champion and drive this forward?
[23:55:00] <danvet> (to whatever consensus we'll reach or whatever seems reasonable)
[23:55:09] <Riastradh> I would like to see it happen, but I'm not in a position in the community to push it -- at most, I can volunteer to be a pretty neutral ear.
[23:55:31] <danvet> Riastradh, well the coc happened, this is more about whether/how the x.org board should get involved
[23:55:31] <robclark> I think we should "endorse" or "recommend" perhaps, I'm not really sure we can do more than that
[23:56:01] <bryce_> robclark, https://pastebin.com/ueY8CwmA ?
[23:56:02] <danvet> Riastradh, want to drive this and maybe type up a proposal text along the lines of robclark's suggestion?
[23:56:11] <Riastradh> `Happened' in what sense?
[23:56:34] <Riastradh> I thought there was still a question of whether X.org would set one down.
[23:56:35] <robclark> bryce_, lgtm
[23:56:35] <danvet> fd.o admins enacted it, it's getting officially enforced for all projects hosted on fd.o
[23:56:45] <Riastradh> Ah, I see, via fd.o, not x.org.
[23:56:58] <danvet> that includes anything under the x.org umbrella
[23:57:21] <danvet> yeah, the open question is how/if we should endorse it, and if/how we should serve as maybe appeal instance
[23:57:31] <robclark> (I'm not entirely sure there is anything that you'd consider as under the x.org umbrella that is not hosted on fd.o)
[23:57:41] <danvet> I think consensus on the m-l is that we'd do a very bad job if directly invovled in enforcing a coc
[23:57:45] <danvet> simply due to delays
[23:58:01] <danvet> robclark, that was my point, kinda
[23:58:26] <danvet> Riastradh, ok if I volunteer you for this?
[23:58:27] <robclark> I would go w/ something along the lines of recommend + volunteer to be appeal/intermediary, but up to the individual project
[23:58:37] <Riastradh> danvet: Volunteer me to do what exactly?
[23:58:40] <danvet> if nothing comes of this, no harm and we can table the topic next week
[23:58:52] <danvet> Riastradh, figure out if/what we should do here still
[23:59:04] <danvet> there was a thread on board@
[23:59:34] <Riastradh> danvet: OK.
[23:59:39] <danvet> thx
[23:59:44] <danvet> mupuf, 1' for khronos, go!
[23:59:49] <danvet> :-)
[23:59:53] <mupuf> ah ah
[00:00:01] <bryce_> Riastradh, I posted a bit of a writeup for my thoughts on what we could do.
[00:00:02] <danvet> ok, church just rang here :-P
[00:00:38] <mupuf> so, Khronos has been asking for an email domain to do access control for submission
[00:00:45] <danvet> mupuf, I'll just note a "martin keeps pushing" for the minutes
[00:00:48] <Riastradh> bryce_: Link?
[00:00:55] <mupuf> conformance test submission
[00:01:02] <danvet> mupuf, ok if we postpone for next week?
[00:01:09] <danvet> I'll do it earlier, since it'll likely take some time
[00:01:11] <bryce_> Riastradh, mailing list archives, it should be in the thread danvet mentioned
[00:01:11] * robclark needs to run pretty soon now.. carpool wants to leave
[00:01:17] <mupuf> can we agree to give x.org email addresses to people submitting results?
[00:01:21] <mupuf> that's all I need to ask
[00:01:35] <Riastradh> bryce_: Oh, OK, then I probably read it.
[00:01:38] <robclark> mupuf, +1 from my side..
[00:01:45] <danvet> sounds good +1
[00:01:51] <danvet> Riastradh, agd5f ?
[00:02:04] <danvet> one more vote and it carries with the secretary tie breaker :-)
[00:02:10] <robclark> mupuf, although I guess that is partly an IT question.. but on the policy side of things I'm ok with it
[00:02:24] <bryce_> +1 from me as long as it isn't opening a hole for spammers ;-)
[00:02:29] <danvet> yay, and carries
[00:02:31] <mupuf> daniels agreed with this idea in private emails
[00:02:35] <danvet> thx everyone for attending
[00:02:39] <mupuf> ok, good, thanks!
[00:02:42] * danvet closing the mtg, it's late :-)
[00:02:44] <mupuf> I will keep on going with this then :)
[00:02:49] <mupuf> danvet: sleep tight :p
[00:02:50] <keithp> tnx
[00:02:51] <danvet> mupuf, thx a lot
[00:03:02] <robclark> bryce_, I guess everyone who would be submitting results already has an fd.o account and alias
[00:03:06] <robclark> (jfyi)
[00:03:17] <Riastradh> abstain khronos, not clear on what this means so can't make informed decision atm, but sounds like that doesn't matter.
[00:03:21] <robclark> cya
[00:03:35] <egbert> good night!
[00:03:41] <danvet> g'nite everyone
[00:03:43] <agd5f> sure +1, assuming we can do it. server admin is not our strong suite
[00:03:44] [disconnected at Fri May 12 00:03:44 2017]