04-13

[22:33:29] [connected at Thu Apr 13 22:33:29 2017]
[22:33:29] [I have joined #xf-bod]
[22:48:09] <danvet> agd5f, mupuf bryce robclark keithp bod mtg in 10'
[22:48:16] <robclark> o/
[22:48:34] <keithp> I'm stuck in meetings all day today
[22:50:08] <bryce> danvet, +agenda re: sponsorship for website placement
[22:50:27] <bryce> welcome aboard Riastradh :-)
[22:50:33] <bryce> bbiab
[22:53:07] <danvet> bryce, oh right, forgot that one
[23:00:28] <mupuf> Hey
[23:00:33] <danvet> hi all!
[23:00:35] <egbert> hi guys!
[23:00:36] <agd5f> hi
[23:00:42] <danvet> egbert, oh, you're here?
[23:00:52] <danvet> last week you said you're not around ...
[23:01:08] <egbert> yes, plans got changed
[23:01:17] <danvet> Agenda: election, gsoc, evoc, website sponsorship, paperwork/finances, khronos, coc
[23:01:21] <danvet> anything to add?
[23:01:56] <Riastrad1> Hi!
[23:01:56] <mupuf> Looks good
[23:02:01] <Riastrad1> bryce: Thanks!
[23:02:11] <danvet> ok, election fallout
[23:02:22] <danvet> thx to agd5f and team for running the show
[23:02:40] <danvet> thx to whot for serving the board, welcome Riastrad1 as a newly elected member
[23:02:51] <egbert> it was mostly agd5f. so thanks to him from my side!
[23:03:06] <mupuf> Yeah! Welcome Riastrad1 !
[23:03:30] <danvet> a few logistics things ...
[23:03:36] <robclark> hi Riastrad
[23:03:48] <danvet> Riastrad1 needs to be added to board@, whot removed
[23:04:00] <danvet> bryce, just noticed your admin, can you pls take care of that?
[23:04:06] <bryce> danvet, will do
[23:04:13] <danvet> and maybe also remove whot as admin and add Riastrad1 too, for more redundancy
[23:04:29] <bryce> Riastrad1, also please send me your gpg key for access to the financial data repository
[23:04:41] <bryce> danvet, righto
[23:04:50] <Riastrad1> bryce: Key fingerprint: fd8a f90d eeb3 04cd 8f21  28a4 d4bb 4629 7ef3 d01b
[23:04:59] <bryce> Riastrad1, thanks
[23:04:59] <Riastrad1> Can find on the keyservers.
[23:05:17] * danvet just wanted to mention gpg
[23:05:18] <bryce> Riastrad1, great will follow up with directions later.
[23:05:21] <Riastrad1> Should have UID for campbell@mumble.net and riastradh@NetBSD.org, feel free to do the standard cookie challenge/response protocol.
[23:05:35] <danvet> ok, someone with admin rights on our board server also needs to add Riastrad1 there with account and stuff
[23:05:39] Riastradh is now known as Guest204
[23:05:39] Riastrad1 is now known as Riastradh
[23:05:41] <danvet> robclark, do you have that?
[23:05:59] tlwoerner_ is now known as tlwoerner
[23:06:00] <robclark> hmm.. good question..
[23:06:11] <danvet> whot has done this thus far, and he's out
[23:06:15] <robclark> I did when it was expo
[23:06:19] <danvet> I think we need at least 2 admins
[23:06:28] <danvet> I'd volunteer you and Riastradh 
[23:06:30] <mupuf> Ok, will send my gpg key, now that I've been reellected. Will do so before going to bed!
[23:06:40] <robclark> ok.. do you remember when whot is back?  I can sync up with him and work it out
[23:06:52] <danvet> I think after easter or something
[23:06:56] <danvet> I'll note it
[23:06:56] <bryce> mupuf, thanks :-)
[23:07:07] <agd5f> probably tuesday
[23:07:35] <danvet> next up is updating the membership agreement
[23:07:49] <danvet> wiki and also when applying on members.x.org
[23:08:05] <danvet> Riastradh, can I volunteer you for that, to test driver server/wiki/whatever access?
[23:08:15] <danvet> robclark can help, he edited the new version
[23:08:33] <robclark> I guess I should merge the git branch w/ member-agreement updates now?
[23:08:53] <danvet> yeah that too
[23:09:29] <robclark> k
[23:09:42] <danvet> Riastradh, btw once you're on the board@ list, pls read the last few threads in the archives
[23:10:00] <danvet> robclark, Riastradh ok, you're signed up for updating the membership thing everywhere :-)
[23:10:14] <robclark> ok, push git updates
[23:10:18] <Riastradh> danvet: What is driver server/wiki/whatever access?
[23:10:44] <danvet> Riastradh, there's a bunch of stuff, robclark and whot should fix you up with all that
[23:10:45] <bryce> Riastradh, he means test out your access to the website git repository
[23:11:03] <Riastradh> danvet: OK, sure.
[23:11:06] <robclark> danvet, do you know if we have other copies other than git and members.x.org?  I guess it might be a nice thing to just update all to point at git?
[23:11:27] <danvet> robclark, it might be on wiki/BoardOfDirectors somewhere
[23:11:31] <danvet> or the foundation
[23:11:40] <danvet> git grep I'd say
[23:12:08] <danvet> anything else we need to do after elections and to get Riastradh rolling?
[23:12:15] <robclark> ok.. I'll poke around then and see what I can figure out.. some of it (at least m.x.o) might have to wait until admin access is sorted..
[23:12:20] <Riastradh> Is the mail archive only browsable on the web, or is there, say, an mbox file on some server?
[23:12:28] <danvet> bryce, oh I also noticed that stuart is still on board@
[23:12:31] <danvet> can you pls remove him too?
[23:12:36] <bryce> sure
[23:12:44] <danvet> Riastradh, the web thing has an mbox download button iirc
[23:12:53] <Riastradh> OK.
[23:13:33] <danvet> there's not much traffic, but e.g. catching up on the khronos stuff or the coc discussion that just started would be useful
[23:13:44] <danvet> bryce, thx
[23:13:47] <Riastradh> Right.  I am pretty much in the dark on just about everything here!
[23:13:53] <danvet> nw
[23:13:59] <bryce> Riastradh, :-)
[23:14:24] <danvet> sarcastic people say we're not much better :-P
[23:14:50] <danvet> I guess we can move to gsoc?
[23:14:56] <danvet> mupuf, kittykat ^ ^
[23:15:46] <bryce> Riastradh, riastradh@NetBSD.org is your preferred email for X.org board stuff?
[23:16:05] <Riastradh> bryce: campbell+xorg-foundation@mumble.net
[23:16:13] <Riastradh> If you need, I can make an OpenPGP UID for that.
[23:16:54] <danvet> hm, mupuf lost in transit maybe ...
[23:17:04] <bryce> Riastradh, couldn't hurt, but up to you
[23:17:08] <danvet> robclark, evoc? I noticed two evoc requests on the m-l ...
[23:17:08] <mupuf> Yep
[23:17:16] <danvet> :-)
[23:17:34] <mupuf> So, gsoc... We had 7 proposals
[23:17:56] <robclark> oh, hmm, looks like an email or two that got lost under an avalanche..
[23:17:59] <mupuf> Out of which, 6 completed the requirements, or close enough
[23:18:25] <mupuf> We are having a very good year, this year!
[23:19:10] <mupuf> I requested 6 slots from google, we'll see what we get from google soon
[23:19:39] <mupuf> I think we'll know in a week or two
[23:19:46] <tlwoerner> the phoronix article must have worked!
[23:19:51] <danvet> mupuf, oh awesome
[23:19:51] <Riastradh> Slot request deadline is 2017-04-17, right?
[23:19:56] <mupuf> And we'll have to rank proposals :)
[23:20:11] <danvet> mupuf, since Riastradh sounds interested, add him as org admin to help out?
[23:20:21] <mupuf> Riastrad1: yes! It is already dobe though
[23:20:26] <Riastradh> (I am org admin for The NetBSD Foundation this year.)
[23:20:53] <mupuf> Sure, will do that when I reach home (in 5 minutes)
[23:21:16] <mupuf> Riastrad1: please PM me your gmail address
[23:21:22] <danvet> robclark, so I guess no updates, but can you pls follow up on the evoc stuff?
[23:21:31] <robclark> ok
[23:22:13] <danvet> mupuf, did you check whether the 2 evoc requests would fit into gsoc?
[23:22:21] <mupuf> They can't
[23:22:21] <danvet> they both ask for internship this summer ...
[23:22:26] <danvet> not students'
[23:22:27] <danvet> ?
[23:22:48] <mupuf> No, the deadline for application is passed
[23:23:04] <danvet> we really need to be better with pr next year :-)
[23:23:36] <danvet> mupuf, anything else on gsoc?
[23:23:36] <mupuf> We got 6 great projects, that's already amazing~
[23:23:43] <mupuf> Nope
[23:23:46] <danvet> yeah, sounds really good
[23:23:53] <danvet> sufficient mentoring?
[23:24:15] <mupuf> Yep, we already have mentors for every projet
[23:24:21] <mupuf> A
[23:24:21] <danvet> great
[23:24:37] <mupuf> As i said, amazing proposals
[23:24:41] <danvet> sweet
[23:24:52] <danvet> ok, I forgot one thing from election fallout
[23:24:57] <agd5f> yeah, really good line up this year
[23:25:07] <danvet> australia has left the board, can we move the mtg earlier?
[23:25:22] <danvet> 3h earlier would be real nice I think ...
[23:25:29] <danvet> earlier on Tue doesn't work for me
[23:25:31] <Riastradh> I can't do before 15:00 US/Eastern on Thursdays, and that might already be a little tight.
[23:25:41] <Riastradh> (12:00 US/Pacific)
[23:25:44] <danvet> hm ...
[23:25:52] <danvet> 12pm is kinda bad
[23:25:59] <danvet> 1h earlier at least?
[23:26:06] * robclark flexible.. thurs is a good day.. earlier is ok (later bad)
[23:26:12] <danvet> I guess egbert &mupuf would appreciate like me :-)
[23:26:12] <Riastradh> 16:00 US/Eastern wfm
[23:26:18] <mupuf> For me, either way earlier or 1h after would work
[23:26:28] <agd5f> tuesdays are better for me, but I can probably due an hour earlier
[23:26:34] <Riastradh> 18:00 US/Eastern wfm
[23:26:35] <danvet> mupuf, ?
[23:26:36] <egbert> danvet: right :)
[23:26:48] <danvet> pls not later
[23:26:53] * danvet falling asleep already
[23:26:57] <bryce> current meeting is 2pm my time, so moving it -3h would be fine
[23:27:08] <mupuf> yeah, I'm a night owl and I have meetings every thursdays.
[23:27:15] <danvet> -3h is already meh, we're talking -1h
[23:27:16] <mupuf> If I have the meetings early in the evening, it works
[23:27:23] <Riastradh> I absolutely can't do 13:00--14:30 US/Eastern.
[23:27:53] <danvet> oh well, I think I'll start a mail thread with options and we knock them down
[23:27:55] <mupuf> but please not at 23:00, otherwise, I will have to stay in whatever place I am, do the meeting then keep on socializing
[23:28:00] <Riastradh> Tuesday all day wfm
[23:28:06] <bryce> ok, -1h or -2h also fine by me
[23:28:10] <danvet> this is too complicated here
[23:28:15] <Riastradh> Consider making a grid of possibilities to which we can all add our names?
[23:28:16] <bryce> hah
[23:28:36] <danvet> yup
[23:28:41] <danvet> there's a service for that
[23:28:46] <Riastradh> Some people like using doodle.com.  I'm not keen on a centralized repository of everyone's personal schedule intersections and meetings, but if you like I'll follow along with it.
[23:28:50] <danvet> that one
[23:29:07] <danvet> it's a Swiss thing
[23:29:11] <danvet> we're organized like that
[23:29:20] <Riastradh> Over at TNF we have a text file in our board source repository.
[23:29:54] <tlwoerner> doodle.com is a good tool for trying to schedule things
[23:30:11] <danvet> ok, let's do this on board@
[23:30:18] <danvet> bryce, website sponsoring thing?
[23:30:24] <bryce> right
[23:30:32] <mupuf> framadate is a free version of doodle, if you want to avoid going to bad services
[23:30:51] <bryce> so we got an unsolicited request to sponsor X.org from a company, requesting to be added to our website
[23:31:37] <bryce> anecdotally, in Inkscape we've had a couple similar requests recently.  I think "sponsor an open source project for a website advert" is a thing.
[23:31:51] <mupuf> hmm
[23:31:56] <danvet> bryce, do you have a ready-made sponsoring plan we could copy?
[23:32:15] <Riastradh> bryce: We do that at TNF, on a corner of the site with <a href="..." nofollow> or whatever so that it doesn't get indexed by search engines.
[23:32:22] <mupuf> Riastradh: invited
[23:32:26] <bryce> anyway, one thing I learned doing it in Inkscape is it's important to nail down exactly what we can promise them, since they'll want placement for a guaranteed amount of time
[23:33:09] <robclark> bryce, could you maybe fwd what they requested and offered (I guess this was an email?) to board@ ?
[23:33:10] <bryce> the Inkscape board defined sponsorship levels and specified what they're getting, and that has helped a ton when these kinds of Q's pop up.  We just refer them to the list
[23:33:13] <danvet> seems reasonable
[23:33:15] <bryce> robclark, sure
[23:33:33] <Riastradh> TNF policy, if you're curious: https://www.netbsd.org/donations/
[23:33:51] <bryce> danvet, yeah I can extract the relevant bits from the inkscape sponsorship policy and forward to the list as an initial draft suggestion
[23:34:20] <Riastradh> I was not involved in drafting or implementing it, just aware of it.  The semiautomated system had an SEO spammer problem until we added the nofollow bit a few years ago.
[23:34:44] <bryce> one question is does anyone have qualms or issues with putting sponsor company logos on our website?  Or suggestions of prominent spots for placement?
[23:34:57] <robclark> (yeah, nofollow is a good idea)
[23:35:19] * robclark on the fence about company logos on website..
[23:35:46] <robclark> would have to think about it (and I suppose find a bit about the background of the company)
[23:35:49] <Riastradh> TNF only puts major sponsors -- universities with whom we have personal contacts who let us use their racks and networks, and the CDN -- on the front of netbsd.org.
[23:35:50] <danvet> Riastradh, where are the links for the company sponsorship levels
[23:36:10] <Riastradh> danvet: Scroll down to the bottom.
[23:36:12] <danvet> bryce, no qualms from my side
[23:36:15] <Riastradh> `Past and ongoing contributors'
[23:36:35] <danvet> Riastradh, yeah only found "monetary contributions" there
[23:36:51] <bryce> ok, sponsor request email forwarded to the list
[23:37:04] <Riastradh> danvet: Nothing in 2017 yet, but there are some links in 2016.
[23:37:11] <egbert> bryce: in general i don't have problems either, depends on the form.
[23:37:55] <bryce> robclark, regarding background it looks like this one (and the ones I mentioned that we fielded at Inkscape) seem to be motivated by the marketing benefit rather than a particular interest in the project's product.  But that's just my guess.
[23:37:57] <egbert> having a sponsor's page where we mention the sponsors (even with logos) would be a natural thing.
[23:38:14] <mupuf> yep
[23:38:17] <danvet> yeah, that sounds good
[23:38:29] <bryce> ok thanks, I'll draft something up hopefully later today
[23:38:42] <danvet> bryce, can you draft something that you deem suitable for x.org? with sponsoring page and all?
[23:38:50] <Riastradh> bryce: We had similar experience at TNF, which is why it is relegated to a corner of the site.
[23:38:50] <danvet> bryce, awesome, thx for volunteering
[23:39:18] <bryce> danvet, yeah I can put together a draft for a policy.
[23:39:26] <danvet> bryce, if you do it somewhere on wiki/BoardOfDirectors Riastradh could then help out too
[23:39:37] <danvet> doesn't need to be private on the board list imo
[23:39:42] <bryce> ok
[23:40:04] <danvet> bryce, paperworks update, do we know more?
[23:40:11] <bryce> we can do a vote on it later to make it official, when it's ready
[23:40:15] <danvet> yup
[23:40:27] <bryce> danvet, for dissolution, no still haven't heard anything back from Delaware :-/
[23:40:35] <danvet> :-/
[23:40:41] <danvet> oh well, I'll keep nagging you
[23:40:57] <bryce> although I haven't checked the mailbox in a couple days so maybe it's there now :-)
[23:41:20] <bryce> if I haven't heard by next meeting, maybe that'd be a time to take a contingency action of some sort...
[23:41:22] <danvet> not going to give you an action to check your mailbox :-)
[23:41:29] <danvet> yeah, seems reasonable
[23:41:40] <danvet> mupuf, khronos?
[23:41:45] <danvet> I didn't see anything fly by
[23:42:33] <danvet> mupuf, time to pester spi again?
[23:42:42] <mupuf> danvet: I guess
[23:42:57] <mupuf> And you want me to use my special guilt-tripping patented technique?
[23:43:17] <robclark> heheh
[23:43:22] <danvet> yeah, sounds good :-)
[23:46:10] <danvet> final topic, fd.o code of conduct
[23:46:16] <danvet> well, the thread on board@
[23:46:34] <danvet> I commented already, probably best if others chime in there with their thoughts
[23:46:46] <bryce> I read over the coc and it looks sensible enough.
[23:47:03] <bryce> two thoughts though
[23:48:05] <bryce> first, I don't think this board is really suited to handling coc issues, since we're basically reps from different areas of the larger community
[23:48:54] <danvet> yeah, I made this same point in my reply on the thread ...
[23:49:13] <mupuf> bryce: yes, but don't forget one mission of xorg
[23:49:18] <Riastradh> bryce: CoC is useful to send message that community members who carry weight will step up about harassment &c.  Technical details of content matter and I'm no expert on that.  I also carry no weight around here so the message carries no weight coming from me.
[23:49:20] <mupuf> making sure people can collaborate
[23:49:29] <robclark> (and the meet every 2 weeks cadence might not be fast enough..)
[23:49:48] <bryce> second, the coc implicitly assumes the project leads aren't going to commit coc issues (it depends on them to decide and enforce).  Some language to give an escalation path for problems with an ill behaved maintainer or administrator might be prudent.
[23:49:53] <robclark> I think we can (and already do) adopt a CoC for xorg functions, like xdc.. fwiw
[23:49:55] <mupuf> I think this is exactly in xorg's charter to deal with this
[23:50:27] <mupuf> second point is true!
[23:50:30] <Riastradh> Where did the CoC language come from?  Has anyone solicited input from, e.g., former Ada Initiative participants?
[23:50:35] <danvet> robclark, yeah, xdc is something we organize, we have a coc since a while for that
[23:51:00] <danvet> Riastradh, I chatted with a bunch, it's one (and apparently the recommened one) of the standard options
[23:51:20] <danvet> it's copied verbatim (minus the reporting mail address) from the contributor covenant
[23:51:25] <bryce> Riastradh, good question I was wondering the same.  But daniels proposed it, he's plugged in to a lot of different places, I trust it came from a good source.
[23:51:45] <danvet> bryce, your 2nd point is why I think the board could serve as a useful fallback/appeal body
[23:51:46] <robclark> Riastradh, in case you didn't see already, https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/CodeOfConduct/ .. looks like it comes from http://contributor-covenant.org/version/1/4/
[23:51:58] <danvet> but like robclark says, I agree we're probably way too slow for first level
[23:52:05] <Riastradh> robclark: Thanks, hadn't had time to read it closely yet!
[23:52:31] <robclark> 2nd level seems more sane..
[23:52:55] <danvet> mupuf, robclark bryce can you pls reply with your thoughts on the thread?
[23:53:04] <Riastradh> Hmm.  Plaintext email as channel for reporting?
[23:53:07] <bryce> mupuf, fair points.  If it's in our charter, then that works for me.  Although I still wonder if we have any enforcement power at all...  we can't eject bad folks from projects or ban them from lists or what not...  Would we just be in an advisory role?
[23:53:08] <danvet> and everyone else too ofc
[23:53:13] <agd5f> I'm not sure what it would apply to with respect to the board.  I can see a coc for projects, but the board is sort of not associated with any and also associated with a lot at the same time
[23:53:41] <Riastradh> Consider providing current OpenPGP fingerprint for recipients, at least, for more confidential reporting?
[23:53:44] <robclark> I think, unlike fd.o, we mostly just could ban ppl from xdc and members@
[23:53:45] <bryce> danvet, sure will try to reply today or early next week
[23:53:55] <mupuf> bryce: yes, advisory role would be what we do
[23:54:03] <danvet> I think we could serve as an advisory thing for fd.o admins
[23:54:04] <egbert> the board may act on members regarding their membership
[23:54:11] <danvet> and that too
[23:54:15] <danvet> I think
[23:54:16] <mupuf> maintainers may not be too willing to take such drastic decisions
[23:54:20] <danvet> might need to check bylaws
[23:54:32] <egbert> but the board is bound to the bylaws in this respect, there is nothing about coc asaik
[23:54:56] <danvet> we don't have a generic blurb that if you hurt the foundation, you can be thrown out?
[23:55:03] <mupuf> egbert: that means we can't revoke anyone's membership
[23:55:10] <egbert> we did discuss such things extensively many years ago when we did the first bylaws. but not with respect to coc
[23:55:15] <danvet> we can let them expire, which amounts to the same
[23:55:16] <mupuf> but we can advise people that this is toxic behaviour
[23:55:17] <bryce> hmm, the other concern I have is if there *is* an issue it could be quite involved to deal with, even if (especially if) we're acting as advisor/counselor.  Are we ok taking on the potential time commitment?
[23:56:11] <bryce> robclark, mm that's a good point.  Guess we do have some enforcement powers...
[23:56:54] <agd5f> there's language in the bylaws about removing members
[23:56:56] <danvet> I think the big power the board has is symbolic weight
[23:57:01] <Riastradh> bryce: Well, Someone^TM should be willing to take responsibility for handling issues; otherwise the message is meaningless.
[23:57:13] <bryce> Riastradh, yep
[23:57:15] <danvet> if we spend some serious time pondering an issue and then recommending that indeed this person needs to be thrown out
[23:57:31] <danvet> it has more weight than just an individual project
[23:57:44] <danvet> Riastradh, there is
[23:57:49] <danvet> fd.o admins will enforce
[23:58:05] <danvet> btw, time is running out, and we have a thread already on board@
[23:58:22] <bryce> right.  I'll follow up thoughts on-list.
[23:58:25] <danvet> pls reply there, this is a too complex thing for 10' on irc :-)
[23:58:51] <danvet> yay, made it to the end despite long agenda!
[23:59:01] <danvet> thx everyone for attending, see you all in 2 weeks
[23:59:07] <danvet> same time still until we decide to move it
[23:59:19] <agd5f> thanks.  bye!
[23:59:22] <Riastradh> Thanks!
[00:00:03] <robclark> gn all
[00:00:16] <mupuf> night :)

[00:00:40] [disconnected at Fri Apr 14 00:00:40 2017]