Date is 2013-06-28, times are UTC+10.
--- Log opened Fri Jun 28 06:05:09 2013
07:05 < whot> anyways. should we get started? keithp, emmes, mupuf_?
07:06 < mupuf_> hi :)
07:06 < marcoz> ah for f's sake. I completely forgot about that.. "I had _ONE_ job..."
07:06 < whot> marcoz: don't worry about it, it's just copy past to the wiki, i'll do it later
07:06 <+alanc> "... so I decided to volunteer for an open source project. Now I have lots of jobs, just don't get paid for them."
07:06 < whot> hehe
07:07 < marcoz> ;)
07:07 <+alanc> hmm, I saw stukreit eating lunch earlier, will poke him to login to irc
07:08 -!- stukreit [~skreitma@inet-hqmc05-o.oracle.com] has joined #xf-bod
07:08 < stukreit> sorry
07:08 < marcoz> btw, i'm using mibbit because my work's firewall is giving me fits. but it's complaining that oftc banned mibbit. if I suddently disappear, that may be related.
07:08 < whot> three things on the agenda: XDC updates, DMCA and xorg wiki license
07:08 <+alanc> we'd only gotten as far as discussing the weather and starting to make a list of who wasn't here yet
07:09 -!- mupuf_ is now known as mupuf
07:09 < whot> XDC updates we may leave until keithp is here. DMCA - you guys may have seen alanc's email
07:09 < whot> question is - is this something for us, or fdo in general, or?
07:10 <+alanc> I think it's more for fdo in general, as the hosting org
07:10 < whot> ok, so we just wait for sitewranglers to respond? the actual requirements are relatively easy to meet, hardest part is probably finding a volunteer :)
07:10 <+alanc> unfortunately, my mail to sitewranglers always seems to end up their moderation queue for months and thus goes nowhere
07:11 <+alanc> suppose I could file a bug report with them to do it, or just pester keithp
07:12 < whot> sounds like a plan
07:14 < whot> ok. any further comments on this?
07:15 <+alanc> none from me
07:15 < whot> next item: wiki/web page licenses. email is "Permission to translate your page [...]" forwarded from matthieu, if you've seen this.
07:15 < mupuf> whot: I wanted to bring that up, indeed
07:16 < whot> original author asks for translations, but Matthieu pointed out that we don't have a license for the wiki, or at least none obviously displayed
07:16 < whot> which brings up the usual issues, which license and do we retro-actively license everything on the wiki?
07:17 < whot> I'm going to take the translation request of out the picture, I don't think it's a good idea for us to host any translations, too hard to verify and maintain. but we shouldn't stop anyone trying to do so on their websites
07:18 < mupuf> I agree with that, the nouveau wiki has translations in many languages, but they are all outdated
07:18 < marcoz> do we need to mention something about having a 'not an official translation' ?
07:19 < mupuf> marcoz: you mean, requiring anyone translating to add a mention that "this is not an official translation"?
07:20 < mupuf> If so, not hosting the page generally means "not an official translation"
07:20 < marcoz> mupuf: something like that yes.
07:20 < marcoz> ok, just curious.
07:21 < whot> yeah, we could require that but I'd rather stick with any of the default licensens and I don't think they do that. and mupuf is right, not on x.org == not official
07:21 < mupuf> Deciding on a licence really isn't a problem. The real problem is retro-action I would say.
07:22 < mupuf> given the fact that the wiki allowed modification and read access by everyone, I would say that modification and free access were then "granted to everyone"
07:23 <+alanc> and for the original request, there's hardly anything worth licensing or translating on http://www.x.org/wiki/FAQ
07:23 <+alanc> though I guess a bunch of the sub-pages have content
07:24 < mupuf> Something like CC-By-SA seems close to what the X.org devs would all agree on
07:25 < mupuf> the By mention would be nice for translation as it would make sure that the original page is credited
07:26 < mupuf> that should satisfy marcoz's concern
07:26 < mupuf> the SA is debatable
07:26 < whot> By would require the author, not the page to be mentioned, right? if so that's hard for a wiki
07:26 <+alanc> I could live with https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/
07:26 < mupuf> good point
07:27 <+alanc> but again, I don't know what we can do retroactively
07:27 < mupuf> "You must attribute the work in the manner specified by the author or licensor (but not in any way that suggests that they endorse you or your use of the work)."
07:28 < mupuf> whot: so we can tell that we want people to reference the page, not the author
07:28 < whot> mupuf: right, makes sense now (just checked what wikipedia does and they have by-sa and gfdl)
07:28 < marcoz> is SA (share alike) debatable? seems like a requirement. and I don't think we can do retro without prior permission since there is no license, by default author retains copyright (in the US)
07:29 <+alanc> might have to check with SFLC if we can claim some sort of implied license in the act of posting to a public wiki
07:29 < marcoz> most def. i'm most definitely NAL. i could way out in left field
07:30 < mupuf> alanc: right, that was the point of what I was writing before. When anyone can read and modify what you wrote, can you expect people not to do it?
07:30 < whot> lawyer territory. any volunteers for SFLC contact?
07:31 * mupuf whistles
07:31 <+keithp> sorry guys; adventures with my phone and I just got my calendar running again
07:31 < whot> by-sa for future contributions ok with everyone? if so, we should slap that on the wiki page in a relatively prominent position
07:31 < mupuf> +1 for the By-SA mention on the wiki
07:32 < marcoz> +1
07:33 < agd5f> +1
07:33 < whot> ok, by-sa it is.
07:34 < whot> marcoz: can I get you to reach out to sflc regarding the retroactive licensing?
07:35 < marcoz> is Karen still the norm contact?
07:36 < agd5f> marcoz: no, she's no longer at SLFC
07:36 <+keithp> marcoz: no, she's at gnome these days
07:36 < agd5f> Justin I think now? stukreit?
07:36 < stukreit> sorry, distracted... lemme read
07:36 < marcoz> when did that happen?
07:37 < marcoz> or am I having a senior moment?
07:37 < agd5f> marcoz: year or so ago?
07:37 < stukreit> So, I have some info about sflc:
07:37 < stukreit> justin left, then there was "Aaron", but he left recently too.
07:37 <+keithp> last mail I have from them was from aaron
07:37 < stukreit> So I have to contact Eben Moglin, the head of the place, and get a new name
07:37 <+keithp> aaron williamson
07:37 < stukreit> yup.
07:38 <+keithp> I'd send him a note
07:38 < marcoz> ok, i must just be having one of those days then. thx.
07:38 < stukreit> Linkedin actually served me. it told me he had moved on
07:38 < stukreit> So... I have to get on to contacting Eben, then I'll give you a name
07:39 < marcoz> stukreit: the plan then is you'll get me a name, then I'll contact them about retro licensing?
07:39 < stukreit> So, I "volunteer" to be the sflc contact, happy to do it. maybe even get another excuse to go to nyc. I have a kid there
07:39 < stukreit> yes
07:40 < stukreit> marcoz: yes
07:40 < marcoz> works for me.
07:40 < marcoz> stukreit: works for me
07:40 < marcoz> ;)
07:40 < whot> mupuf: can I volunteer you to slap the CC-BY-SA somewhere on the wiki?
07:40 < whot> I'm a bit under this week with catching up
07:40 < mupuf> whot: sure
07:41 < whot> thx
07:41 < whot> ok, last item on agenda is XDC - keithp, anything worth mentioning?
07:42 <+keithp> need to fix the wiki so people can edit it again; I'll check with Joe and see if he can convert it over to iki
07:42 <+keithp> otherwise we're unlikely to get many attendees registered
07:43 < mupuf> keithp: good, because I'ven't be able to login or request a new account. It always end up with error 500
07:43 <+keithp> I know
07:43 <+keithp> we can't create new moin accounts, and the only way to re-enable existing ones is with a horrible shell script hack that runs as root
07:44 < whot> provide an email on the wiki page to say "if you can't edit this, send an email here so we can add you"
07:44 < whot> (for the registration page)
07:44 < mupuf> whot: that's not a solution
07:44 <+keithp> I'll see if Joe can't just convert the wiki over to iki soon
07:45 < whot> no, but it'll parallelize (?) the registation and the wiki issues
07:45 <+keithp> (mail already sent)
07:45 < mupuf> getting an account on freedesktop is already a mess
07:45 <+keithp> iki stuff is pretty easy; anyone with a shell account can create new iki accounts
07:45 <+keithp> and iki accounts work for all wikis
07:45 < mupuf> Marcin slusarz complained about waiting more than 3 months in order to be added to the nouveau group
07:46 < mupuf> FYI, he still isn't
07:46 < mupuf> keithp: that doesn't solve the problem of requesting an account on freedesktop
07:47 < mupuf> and do we really want to give people access to a shell in order to be able to edit a wiki?
07:47 <+keithp> mupuf: you don't need shell to edit the wiki, you just need someone with a shell to give you a wiki account
07:47 < mupuf> keithp: that's nicer, indeed
07:48 <+keithp> cool
07:48 <+keithp> the goal is to make it not automatic as that always gets hacked
07:48 <+keithp> but, to make it pretty darn easy
07:48 < mupuf> right, but there should be a strong guarantee to get the validation in say 3 days or a week
07:48 <+keithp> for a shell account?
07:49 <+keithp> or for a wiki account?
07:49 < mupuf> nope, for wikis
07:49 < mupuf> for shell accounts, waiting more is generally ok
07:49 <+keithp> for that, just troll on any xorg irc channel; the hope is someone will take pity on you
07:49 < mupuf> good to know
07:49 -!- marcoz [4358f4a2@78.129.202.38] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
07:50 < mupuf> who is going to receive the validation requests?
07:50 <+keithp> essentially anyone with a shell account is welcome to create wiki accounts
07:50 <+keithp> iki is all in git, so removing an account and clearing out damage is pretty quick
07:51 <+keithp> so, abuse should be easier to repair than moin
07:51 < mupuf> ok, good
07:51 <+keithp> which is a lot like RCS in terms of version control
07:51 < mupuf> will there be a ML we can subscribe to in order to receive those requests and add people?
07:52 < mupuf> maybe this is a discussion for #freedesktop, but it really is important though
07:55 < whot> well, #fredesktop is more likely to help you :)
07:55 < whot> keithp: anything else on XDC?
07:56 <+keithp> whot: We need a bunch more content on the wiki; I may need to get bart and ian to help flesh out that data
07:58 < whot> do we have a travel sponsorship budget?
07:58 < stukreit> nope. we generally accept all comers
08:02 < whot> ok, that should be it then.
08:02 < whot> oh, before I forget: stukreit any updates on 501c3
08:02 < stukreit> not yet
08:02 < whot> ok, thanks
08:02 < whot> ok, that's it for today then. thanks for playing, gentlemen
08:03 < whot> declaring meeting as closed